I have always heard that men like to chase, but I wonder if it's worse in the world of Mormon dating. I know a fellow who always seems to take an interest in girls who do not reciprocate. Each time he makes his interest known, he pursues, and she rejects. For many a rejection would be indication to move on, however this seems to only encourage him more. I once heard him say that the ones who are hard to get are the ones worth chasing. But when they don't want you back, doesn't that just seem idiotic? Why do guys want to make things so complicated, and face rejection over and over again?
This boy is not unique. I've seen it time and time again. I've also seen many cases when the guy finally does get the girl, when she finally sees past his stalker and obsessive behaviour and somehow spots some charm, the boy starts to pull back, getting cold feet and suddenly ends things, often immediately finding a new victim to hunt. The thrill of the chase seems to be all that they want, and once the girl is caught, there is no real interest in a lasting relationship.
So what is wrong with these boys (and yes, I will insist on calling them boys unless they prove otherwise)? Don't they desire a relationship? Do they not want a real companion? Are they not interested in a girl who will love them in return? There must be something lacking within these souls to continually be attracted to girls who are not attracted to them. Also, what does it say about the boy who thinks a girl is so amazing, the perfect girl worth pursuing even after rejection, only to have her and then lose interest? He must not really know what he wants, or he must be too shallow to really see the girl for who she is, and instead falls in love with the idea of her.
Ah, the Idea of Her. This is a common one in Mormon culture, and it makes boys get in the way of their true interests and finding real compatibility. Because we are all looking for the one shot at marriage there is a lot of pressure to find the whole package. Boys love to create in their minds the perfect future wife. She is small and doesn't show any signs of FP (Fat Potential). She plays the piano and sings. She comes from a big family and wants to have lots of kids. She is studying to be a dental assistant or primary school teacher. She is not bitter and not over the age of 25.
Well, there are a lot of girls out there who do fit that stereotype, but not all guys subscribe to this image of perfection. Every guy has his own idea constructed in his head and is on the hunt to find it. The problem is that he will often find one aspect of a girl that he likes, and then hone in and begin the hunt assuming she is The One and has all the qualities he wants in a wife. He spends so much time chasing the idea, he doesn't even know who he's caught once the game is over.
Wednesday, September 22, 2010
Friday, September 3, 2010
Mormon Dating 101 - The Simple Things
You may think that Mormon dating is a complicated thing. You are both correct and incorrect. Some aspects are easy as pie (and trite cliches). Others are a tad more complex. We here at 'Plight of the Religious Dater' realize that Mormon culture varies depending on where you live and of course the individual beliefs of the people involved, but the authors have all lived in various countries across the globe and we feel confident in addressing generalities in our religious community. So, I submit a few of the simple aspects of Mormon dating that are relatively constant (please note that each point could apply to either men or women - we here at POTRD do not condone sexism):
1) Awkwardness. It will always exist, so don't even try to escape.
2) Cheapness. As in, "my date insisted we walk the 27 blocks to the theatre to save on gas".
3) Sexual uncertainty. We're not 17 anymore and it's stupid to be chaperoned at all times. How far is 'too' far?
4) Gender stereotypes. Will the lady expect the gentleman to pay? Will the gentleman expect the lady to be demure? Ad nauseum.
5) Group dates. No, even at 29 we still need our friends to bolster us when interacting with the opposite sex.
6) Hope. Hopefully there is hope. Hope that the person across the table from you at The Olive Garden will be nice, thoughtful, fun, interesting and hope that he/she will think the same about you. Sometimes the hope is all we have.
Obviously, if you've got yourself a good match, all of the above might disappear. If this happens, hold fast and do not let go. Next time, some of the more complex aspects...
1) Awkwardness. It will always exist, so don't even try to escape.
2) Cheapness. As in, "my date insisted we walk the 27 blocks to the theatre to save on gas".
3) Sexual uncertainty. We're not 17 anymore and it's stupid to be chaperoned at all times. How far is 'too' far?
4) Gender stereotypes. Will the lady expect the gentleman to pay? Will the gentleman expect the lady to be demure? Ad nauseum.
5) Group dates. No, even at 29 we still need our friends to bolster us when interacting with the opposite sex.
6) Hope. Hopefully there is hope. Hope that the person across the table from you at The Olive Garden will be nice, thoughtful, fun, interesting and hope that he/she will think the same about you. Sometimes the hope is all we have.
Obviously, if you've got yourself a good match, all of the above might disappear. If this happens, hold fast and do not let go. Next time, some of the more complex aspects...
Friday, August 27, 2010
Brain Dribble and Bad Boys...Same thing really.
So girls like to talk. It is one of those things burned into our DNA that has us communicating about everything. We are the queens of discussing everything we like and dislike - usually boys. And that is why I have jumped on the the bandwagon and exclaimed "giddy up" because truthfully, it fascinates me (and I can pretend someone actually reads the dribble that comes from the grey matter that is my brain).
It is a truth universally acknowledged that girls like to 'improve' things- usually things that are impossible to change. WHY oh why? Why do I get giddy over men that aren't good for me?
Last week as my female sensibilities demand, I was due for a Jane Austenish film viewing. Because I am a girl it must be so and anything in period pieces that involves a chaperone is a winner. Becoming Jane it is. So there is this character, Tom Lefroy who becomes Austen's lover (in the 1800s sense). He is cocky, a womaniser and pretty much a rude dude! Yet he still has a little sumfin sumfin that makes my heart give a little leap and pirouette in my ribcage. Our heroine Jane wins the bad boy's heart and he is a changed man, and his heart is hers. He would readily lose everything to be with her. Swoon.
So I was thinking this Lefroy, imagined or no is a character we all dream of. The one who changes his ways and sees the light because of one individual...that happens to be me. I ask myself is this ever a reality? Does this ever happen? Usually not, in fact it usually ends in low self esteem and puffy eyes. Time and time again I am blinded by the hope that his attention will last longer than how long it takes to corrupt me or get bored by my 'immovable' morals. I KNOW better! Yet Lefroy won my vote again.
Brain dribble complete.
Monday, August 23, 2010
Am I a Cougar?
Can you be called a cougar if you are the one being pursued?
For several years now I have been saying that I prefer dating younger men. I find that men my age are often single for a reason. Large generalization I realize, but go ahead and prove me wrong.
Lately a young man has started showing interest in me, and when I say young, I mean young. We have almost a decade between us, but he isn't at all bothered by this and continues to do all he can to see me. The attention is great, and I admire his confidence and at times it even brings out the shy little girl in me, feeling less like his older sister.
See, the thing that is so great about young men chasing older women is that they do so because they think we know what we want, and that we are emotionally mature. They find the younger girls to be unstable and have too many "issues". In contrast, the older fellas tend to label any woman over the age of 25 as "bitter, set in her ways, independent (not sure why that is a bad thing), full of issues, etc." They tend to like the younger lassies who will think everything they say is brilliant and not talk back.
Do we have a problem here? Why are the two genders at war with their own age bracket? It just doesn't seem right that a man and a woman in their early 30s aren't finding compatibility with one another. At that age we most likely have finished our schooling, no longer live with our parents, have perhaps done some travel, are working in a stable career. Why are we not wanting to be with our equal in life experiences?
I have some ideas about this, mainly that a lot of women get more confident with age, whereas men seem to lose some of this. Men may be confident in many aspects of their lives, but I think the stigma of being single makes them feel less accomplished. Guys seem to measure success by specific achievements; good job, nice car, cute girl. When they don't have all those things they feel like failures to some degree, and lose confidence as they continue in the struggle to tackle all three. This lack of confidence makes it harder for them to feel secure in who they are, especially when trying to represent themselves to accomplished and intelligent ladies.
Women seem to have the opposite response to age. Sure, we struggle with wondering why we are still single, but we often channel that focus towards improving ourselves to become happier and more desirable. We keep getting better with age, and then the confidence increases because we know we are quality catches. This in turn attracts the young lads, making us stand out from all the silly girls chasing after them and texting them 24/7.
So is there an answer to all of this? Are older women better off dating younger men, and older men better off dating the younger ladies? I'm not sure, because despite everything I have just written, dating is not black and white and at the end of the day it is not about age, but about finding your most compatible match and someone who makes you want to be a better person.
For several years now I have been saying that I prefer dating younger men. I find that men my age are often single for a reason. Large generalization I realize, but go ahead and prove me wrong.
Lately a young man has started showing interest in me, and when I say young, I mean young. We have almost a decade between us, but he isn't at all bothered by this and continues to do all he can to see me. The attention is great, and I admire his confidence and at times it even brings out the shy little girl in me, feeling less like his older sister.
See, the thing that is so great about young men chasing older women is that they do so because they think we know what we want, and that we are emotionally mature. They find the younger girls to be unstable and have too many "issues". In contrast, the older fellas tend to label any woman over the age of 25 as "bitter, set in her ways, independent (not sure why that is a bad thing), full of issues, etc." They tend to like the younger lassies who will think everything they say is brilliant and not talk back.
Do we have a problem here? Why are the two genders at war with their own age bracket? It just doesn't seem right that a man and a woman in their early 30s aren't finding compatibility with one another. At that age we most likely have finished our schooling, no longer live with our parents, have perhaps done some travel, are working in a stable career. Why are we not wanting to be with our equal in life experiences?
I have some ideas about this, mainly that a lot of women get more confident with age, whereas men seem to lose some of this. Men may be confident in many aspects of their lives, but I think the stigma of being single makes them feel less accomplished. Guys seem to measure success by specific achievements; good job, nice car, cute girl. When they don't have all those things they feel like failures to some degree, and lose confidence as they continue in the struggle to tackle all three. This lack of confidence makes it harder for them to feel secure in who they are, especially when trying to represent themselves to accomplished and intelligent ladies.
Women seem to have the opposite response to age. Sure, we struggle with wondering why we are still single, but we often channel that focus towards improving ourselves to become happier and more desirable. We keep getting better with age, and then the confidence increases because we know we are quality catches. This in turn attracts the young lads, making us stand out from all the silly girls chasing after them and texting them 24/7.
So is there an answer to all of this? Are older women better off dating younger men, and older men better off dating the younger ladies? I'm not sure, because despite everything I have just written, dating is not black and white and at the end of the day it is not about age, but about finding your most compatible match and someone who makes you want to be a better person.
Saturday, August 21, 2010
Capitalist Dating
One day my friend BB and I were chatting about the frustrations of Mormon dating and she so perfectly summed it up:
LDS dating is always a soap opera
it is like capitalism
all about supply and demand
winners and losers.
LDS dating is always a soap opera
it is like capitalism
all about supply and demand
winners and losers.
Friday, August 20, 2010
He's just not that into me - again?!
Is that always the answer? Lately I have been conducting a lot of research on dating and have been reading some great books, such as Why He Didn't Call You Back, and You Lost Him at Hello, and of course the ever so famous one, He's Just Not That Into You. The message is pretty clear: if he wants to call you, he will.
Okay, I understand that, and it makes perfect sense. I have believed and preached it myself, however are there ever exceptions to this? For instance, a few months ago I met this guy we'll call Gob. We met through friends at a gathering and spent the night chatting. The next day he asked our mutual friend (MF) to arrange a double date. It was a fantastic date and I got home thinking he would for sure call me. He didn't.
About a week or so later I heard that he had been talking about me to one of my girl friends, mentioning how cool I am. He brought me up and had nothing but positive things to say. Still, he didn't call.
A few weeks later I decided to do the junior high thing and ask MF what Gob was up to, and mentioned that I had a good time with him, but wasn't sure if there was any point in holding interest. MF told me that Gob had a lot of fun with me and thinks I'm really cool, but he's really slow and doesn't really ask girls out. This is where I should be recognizing alarm bells, but instead I take this as hope.
The next night I see MF and he tells me that he had talked to Gob earlier saying he would be seeing me that night, and Gob said he wanted to come along but couldn't, so he asked for my number. Still, he didn't call.
One week later he's talking to mutual girl friend and brings me up to her and asks if I have a cell phone yet. Seriously, do boys really think that the info doesn't come back to us?? She doesn't know about him already having my number from MF, so she gives it to him. Still, he didn't call.
I am perplexed by all of this. If he just isn't that into me, why does he bother bringing me up and asking for my phone number - from two different people? It's amazing what one date can leave you feeling, but I liked this guy, and I wanted to see him again. I decided as a last effort I would email him and ask what he has been up to. He immediately wrote back and asked me - get this - if I have a cell phone yet. There we have 3 separate requests from 3 different people for one simple little number. What does this mean? Either he's super flaky and keeps forgetting, or he is shy and wants to have the number directly from me, or he's just a doofus. Whatever the reason, he still didn't call.
I know you are thinking I should have given up in paragraph 2, but it's hard enough to find a guy in the Mormon world of dating that I actually want to see again, so when he gives a small glimmer of hope, I hold on like a kid to a helium balloon. If you let go, you fall hard onto the pavement, watching that balloon float away, with no sign of another one coming along anytime soon.
Two weeks after he got my number from me, I ran into Gob at a church event and we chatted. It was slightly awkward, mostly because I was feeling a bit shy, having built up my idea of this guy over the 2 month period of waiting for him to call. We talked about tennis* because he plays quite frequently, and I tell him I'm jealous that he can play and has a summer hobby. I wasn't looking for anything in this innocent comment, but he then says he'll teach me. I tell him that would be a bad idea because I have zero experience, but he insists. Of course now I'm thinking, sweet, he wants to go out again! Later in the evening he spots me and again says that he'll call me and we'll go play tennis. I'm ecstatic! He does like me! He asked me out! Wrong.
One week later, and no call. Tonight I was talking to my brother and mentioned that Gob still hadn't called. He turns to me and says, "Sis, he's not going to call. I'm sorry." Ouch! How does he know that? He doesn't even know Gob. Why does he know this? Because he's a boy, and he knows that if he wants to call a girl, he will. Otherwise, he's just not that into her.
*sport has been changed to protect the boy's true identity
Okay, I understand that, and it makes perfect sense. I have believed and preached it myself, however are there ever exceptions to this? For instance, a few months ago I met this guy we'll call Gob. We met through friends at a gathering and spent the night chatting. The next day he asked our mutual friend (MF) to arrange a double date. It was a fantastic date and I got home thinking he would for sure call me. He didn't.
About a week or so later I heard that he had been talking about me to one of my girl friends, mentioning how cool I am. He brought me up and had nothing but positive things to say. Still, he didn't call.
A few weeks later I decided to do the junior high thing and ask MF what Gob was up to, and mentioned that I had a good time with him, but wasn't sure if there was any point in holding interest. MF told me that Gob had a lot of fun with me and thinks I'm really cool, but he's really slow and doesn't really ask girls out. This is where I should be recognizing alarm bells, but instead I take this as hope.
The next night I see MF and he tells me that he had talked to Gob earlier saying he would be seeing me that night, and Gob said he wanted to come along but couldn't, so he asked for my number. Still, he didn't call.
One week later he's talking to mutual girl friend and brings me up to her and asks if I have a cell phone yet. Seriously, do boys really think that the info doesn't come back to us?? She doesn't know about him already having my number from MF, so she gives it to him. Still, he didn't call.
I am perplexed by all of this. If he just isn't that into me, why does he bother bringing me up and asking for my phone number - from two different people? It's amazing what one date can leave you feeling, but I liked this guy, and I wanted to see him again. I decided as a last effort I would email him and ask what he has been up to. He immediately wrote back and asked me - get this - if I have a cell phone yet. There we have 3 separate requests from 3 different people for one simple little number. What does this mean? Either he's super flaky and keeps forgetting, or he is shy and wants to have the number directly from me, or he's just a doofus. Whatever the reason, he still didn't call.
I know you are thinking I should have given up in paragraph 2, but it's hard enough to find a guy in the Mormon world of dating that I actually want to see again, so when he gives a small glimmer of hope, I hold on like a kid to a helium balloon. If you let go, you fall hard onto the pavement, watching that balloon float away, with no sign of another one coming along anytime soon.
Two weeks after he got my number from me, I ran into Gob at a church event and we chatted. It was slightly awkward, mostly because I was feeling a bit shy, having built up my idea of this guy over the 2 month period of waiting for him to call. We talked about tennis* because he plays quite frequently, and I tell him I'm jealous that he can play and has a summer hobby. I wasn't looking for anything in this innocent comment, but he then says he'll teach me. I tell him that would be a bad idea because I have zero experience, but he insists. Of course now I'm thinking, sweet, he wants to go out again! Later in the evening he spots me and again says that he'll call me and we'll go play tennis. I'm ecstatic! He does like me! He asked me out! Wrong.
One week later, and no call. Tonight I was talking to my brother and mentioned that Gob still hadn't called. He turns to me and says, "Sis, he's not going to call. I'm sorry." Ouch! How does he know that? He doesn't even know Gob. Why does he know this? Because he's a boy, and he knows that if he wants to call a girl, he will. Otherwise, he's just not that into her.
*sport has been changed to protect the boy's true identity
Thursday, August 19, 2010
Come on, jump in
Dealing with the emotions of dating relationships is tricky stuff. As soon as we develop an interest in someone we immediately become emotionally vulnerable. It's hard to control those feelings, and the more the other person gives you, the more you want him. Before you know it the boy is consuming all your thoughts and suddenly your other interests and goals seem less significant in the great scheme of things.
Why is it then, that when we are dealing with such delicate feelings, ones that can be so easily crushed and destroy all our hopes and dreams, that we dive in head first? It's risky, dangerous, could leave us with a serious head injury, but we dismiss all that and take the risk, often crashing and causing a concussion of the heart.
Several months ago I got back in touch with a male friend whom I've known for a few years. We were living on separate continents while I was overseas studying, but we flirted via email and then we started Skyping. He got serious very quickly, wanting to know how often we would talk, and asked me to be his girlfriend. Keep in mind we had never been on a date, so I declined the offer, however we discussed having interest in one another and no one else, and wanted to develop things until we could see each other in person. We started talking every day and this went on for about a month and a half. As this was happening, my feelings started to catch up with his as he started using pet names and telling me all his plans for our future. He even made a joke about our future grand kids - gasp! I liked him. He was exactly my type, and I was falling, but not as quickly as he was.
Things seemed great during that time, but then he suddenly started to pull back, and made comments about us just being friends and how he was trying to find someone locally. I'm sorry, but are you planning dates with all your girl friends, calling them "Sweetie" and signing off with love hearts? If so, you've got more to deal with than a slew of angry girls. After that, things started to die. By the time we were on the same continent again there was nothing from him. He had sure been keen on labeling the relationship, but not on ending it. I'll never get my closure, or the grand kids.
It was a tough time for me, but I saw a pattern I've seen many times before. He got really excited about the idea of me. I could check off his boxes and he thought he wanted me. He made that decision as soon as I gave some mild reciprocation, and then off he goes planning our wedding. Just as I start to catch up, he's already submitted the divorce papers and back into the singles scene. Why do guys do this? Why can't they just simmer down, get to know the girl, and then gradually increase the contact and the dating in order to truly build a relationship?
Tonight I was talking to a dear friend of mine who has sadly just experienced a cliff jumper of her own.
It's a common story for the gals, and we are always left bewildered, feeling the lingering sting of the slap to the face that came from nowhere. There is no point in trying to slap back; he's already gone.
Why is it then, that when we are dealing with such delicate feelings, ones that can be so easily crushed and destroy all our hopes and dreams, that we dive in head first? It's risky, dangerous, could leave us with a serious head injury, but we dismiss all that and take the risk, often crashing and causing a concussion of the heart.
Several months ago I got back in touch with a male friend whom I've known for a few years. We were living on separate continents while I was overseas studying, but we flirted via email and then we started Skyping. He got serious very quickly, wanting to know how often we would talk, and asked me to be his girlfriend. Keep in mind we had never been on a date, so I declined the offer, however we discussed having interest in one another and no one else, and wanted to develop things until we could see each other in person. We started talking every day and this went on for about a month and a half. As this was happening, my feelings started to catch up with his as he started using pet names and telling me all his plans for our future. He even made a joke about our future grand kids - gasp! I liked him. He was exactly my type, and I was falling, but not as quickly as he was.
Things seemed great during that time, but then he suddenly started to pull back, and made comments about us just being friends and how he was trying to find someone locally. I'm sorry, but are you planning dates with all your girl friends, calling them "Sweetie" and signing off with love hearts? If so, you've got more to deal with than a slew of angry girls. After that, things started to die. By the time we were on the same continent again there was nothing from him. He had sure been keen on labeling the relationship, but not on ending it. I'll never get my closure, or the grand kids.
It was a tough time for me, but I saw a pattern I've seen many times before. He got really excited about the idea of me. I could check off his boxes and he thought he wanted me. He made that decision as soon as I gave some mild reciprocation, and then off he goes planning our wedding. Just as I start to catch up, he's already submitted the divorce papers and back into the singles scene. Why do guys do this? Why can't they just simmer down, get to know the girl, and then gradually increase the contact and the dating in order to truly build a relationship?
Tonight I was talking to a dear friend of mine who has sadly just experienced a cliff jumper of her own.
- They made meaningful eye contact in a social gathering
- He got her number
- He started asking her out and sending cute text messages
- He held her hand
- He sent a text message saying that he didn't want to lead her on and that they should just be friends.
It's a common story for the gals, and we are always left bewildered, feeling the lingering sting of the slap to the face that came from nowhere. There is no point in trying to slap back; he's already gone.
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